This was originally posted under What Episode Did You Watch, but I wanted to add it here. I was stunned, to say the least, to here what Joe told Claire. 

 

Tonight I'm watching Her Brother's Keeper. I'm about half way through it and still trying to figure out the brother's plans for his sister, Claire. However, I just discovered an odd statement by Joe that throws a big monkey wrench into his memories of Marie (and canon/fanon) and how old he was when she died.  The sister who's at the Ponderosa with Ben asks about Marie after seeing her picture. Joe says, "She died right after I was born. I never knew her." When she says she's sorry about that, Joe replies, "Oh don't be. It's something I never had, so I don't miss it." She asks, "Never?" Joe, "Almost never."

 

Update: I finished it and discovered the brother's 'issues'. What a heartbreaking ending. I found the brother's manipulations odd throughout, based on the reveal at the end. He was a desperate soul. 

So now you've got me wondering - what IS the basis for the assumption that Joe was around five when Marie died?  It's all over the fanfiction and I definitely had it in my head, but I couldn't tell you what episode it was mentioned in.  I just looked at transcripts for A Rose for Lotta (when Joe's explaining that he and his brothers had different mothers), Marie, My Love (they mention Marie fell from a horse, but not when) and The First Born (Joe just tells Clay he doesn't remember much about his mother).  Nothing clear there!  And...I don't know when else this would have come up.  Anyone know?

 

I can fully believe that they said Joe was five somewhere and then contradicted it elsewhere, because they do that...like how Joe said he was "born in the room upstairs" (to Clay), but they also said elsewhere that Adam designed the house...when he was 12??   But you do have me wondering what was actually said about Marie!

@Tavia42 It got me wondering too. This episode was in season 7, by the way. 

 

What about A House Divided? Kyle connects with Joe over the tiny picture of Marie. And The Stranger, with LeDuque stirring up some past 'rumors' about Marie. The family discusses that at the house and Joe confronts LeDuque, but I don't think much is mentioned about Joe's age when Marie was alive. 

 

I don't know enough about post season 6 episodes and Her Brother's Keeper was just out of the blue as Claire was asking about Marie in order to get to know more about Ben. 

21 minutes ago, AC1830 said:

@Tavia42 It got me wondering too. This episode was in season 7, by the way. 

 

What about A House Divided? Kyle connects with Joe over the tiny picture of Marie. And The Stranger, with LeDuque stirring up some past 'rumors' about Marie. The family discusses that at the house and Joe confronts LeDuque, but I don't think much is mentioned about Joe's age when Marie was alive. 

 

I don't know enough about post season 6 episodes and Her Brother's Keeper was just out of the blue as Claire was asking about Marie in order to get to know more about Ben. 

Hmmmmmm.  Doing some checking, and A House Divided doesn't appear to say much.  In The Stranger, Ben tells Joe "you never really knew her" which does not support the idea that he was five when she died...

 

It's probably a passing remark in some random episode somewhere 

29 minutes ago, Tavia42 said:

Hmmmmmm.  Doing some checking, and A House Divided doesn't appear to say much.  In The Stranger, Ben tells Joe "you never really knew her" which does not support the idea that he was five when she died...

 

It's probably a passing remark in some random episode somewhere 

 

29 minutes ago, Tavia42 said:

Hmmmmmm.  Doing some checking, and A House Divided doesn't appear to say much.  In The Stranger, Ben tells Joe "you never really knew her" which does not support the idea that he was five when she died...

 

It's probably a passing remark in some random episode somewhere 

 

29 minutes ago, Tavia42 said:

Hmmmmmm.  Doing some checking, and A House Divided doesn't appear to say much.  In The Stranger, Ben tells Joe "you never really knew her" which does not support the idea that he was five when she died...

 

It's probably a passing remark in some random episode somewhere 

In A Rose for Lotta, the very first episode of the series, Joe says his mother's name is Felicia, though I think in every other episode that she's mentioned her name is Marie.  However, in Season 3's The Storm, Joe and Laura are reminiscing about being children in New Orleans and that he left New Orleans 12 years ago.  Assuming he's 17 in Season 1, that would have made him around 5 when the family left New Orleans.  That might be why it's assumed he had some time with his mother but it does scupper him being born in the room upstairs at the Ponderosa!  I don't think the script writers were very mindful of the  canon!

Some of these inconsistencies have confused me as well, but I guess having different writers for the eps, it’s understandable. We have the advantage of being able to view all the shows and knit them together even if the writers dropped a stitch or two.  It’s the watching and  studying that’s so fun, and having other folks to chat with .

45 minutes ago, Daisy Roots said:

 

 

In A Rose for Lotta, the very first episode of the series, Joe says his mother's name is Felicia, though I think in every other episode that she's mentioned her name is Marie.  However, in Season 3's The Storm, Joe and Laura are reminiscing about being children in New Orleans and that he left New Orleans 12 years ago.  Assuming he's 17 in Season 1, that would have made him around 5 when the family left New Orleans.  That might be why it's assumed he had some time with his mother but it does scupper him being born in the room upstairs at the Ponderosa!  I don't think the script writers were very mindful of the  canon!

I always assumed the time in New Orleans with Laura had to be a visit - we know from Marie, My Love that Ben already had the Ponderosa when he met Marie, and left Adam and Hoss behind when he went to New Orleans - so they couldn’t have stayed for 5-6 years. The mystery continues!

 

They definitely didn’t worry much about canon - but I don’t think they ever imagined people would be rewatching episodes, let alone checking transcripts and parsing details!

 

28 minutes ago, Annie Mac said:

Some of these inconsistencies have confused me as well, but I guess having different writers for the eps, it’s understandable. We have the advantage of being able to view all the shows and knit them together even if the writers dropped a stitch or two.  It’s the watching and  studying that’s so fun, and having other folks to chat with .

Entirely agree!

In The First Born Joe tells Clay he’s never been to New Orleans. In The Julia Bulette Story, Joe tells Julia he remembers some French from his mother, which would make him older than a newborn when she died. So many inconsistencies! 

3 hours ago, patina said:

In The First Born Joe tells Clay he’s never been to New Orleans. In The Julia Bulette Story, Joe tells Julia he remembers some French from his mother, which would make him older than a newborn when she died. So many inconsistencies! 

 

And since there's no definitive canon here, fanfiction writers can choose the history they prefer.  Personally, I'm in the camp of LJ being around five years old when Marie died, but that's certainly debatable.  

9 hours ago, patina said:

In The First Born Joe tells Clay he’s never been to New Orleans. In The Julia Bulette Story, Joe tells Julia he remembers some French from his mother, which would make him older than a newborn when she died. So many inconsistencies! 

And in The Frenchman, Joe doesn’t appear to know any French at all!  I don’t know why I love this stuff so much…

 

14 hours ago, patina said:

In The First Born Joe tells Clay he’s never been to New Orleans. In The Julia Bulette Story, Joe tells Julia he remembers some French from his mother, which would make him older than a newborn when she died. So many inconsistencies! 

That's what Fan fiction is for - to fix those inconsistencies. 

 

I'm in the camp of Joe being around age 4-5 when she died. 

Just watched “ to own the world” last night. Ben tells an old friend “We had those water rights since before little Joe was born” , and I said “AHA! More eveidence! I’m in the “ born on the Ponderosa “ camp.

14 hours ago, Annie Mac said:

Just watched “ to own the world” last night. Ben tells an old friend “We had those water rights since before little Joe was born” , and I said “AHA! More eveidence! I’m in the “ born on the Ponderosa “ camp.

I'm definitely in the camp of Joe born on the Ponderosa. 

In The Oath, S8, Charlie 2 tells Joe that his mum died when he was a baby and Joe says, "Yeah, so did mine. I never even knew her."  

What?

4 minutes ago, ElayneA said:

What?

 

Yeah, the show tended to have a lot of inconsistencies that they thought fans wouldn't be noticing years later.  I'm in the same camp that I prefer Joe was 5 when Marie died and that he was indeed born on the Ponderosa. 

These poor writers are in Teleplay Heaven smacking themselves in the forehead...

"What the heck are you talking about?! Who, in God's name, could remember every darn line we wrote!?"

"Man, where were you when God invented videotape?"

"Invented what?"

"Videotape!!  Instead of film, it was invented in '56.  Regular shows started 'taping' episodes instead of filming in the early sixties."

"What... like reel to reel but in video?  You're kidding."
 

"Would I lie?!  And then - get this! - PRIVATE HOMES had videotape players!!!  People could record a show as it was being aired and go back and watch it over and over... well, until the tapes broke."

"Good Lord... Continuity had to have been a nightmare!!!"

"You're tellin' me..."

Their mistakes will live in perpetuity...  

53 minutes ago, Pat D in PA said:

These poor writers are in Teleplay Heaven smacking themselves in the forehead...

"What the heck are you talking about?! Who, in God's name, could remember every darn line we wrote!?"

"Man, where were you when God invented videot tape?"

"Invented what?"

"Videotape!!  Instead of film, it was invented in '56.  Regular shows started 'taping' episodes instead of filming in the early sixties."

"What... like reel to reel but in video?  You're kidding."
 

"Would I lie?!  And then... get this!... PRIVATE HOMES had tape players!!!  People could record a show as it was being aired and go back and watch it over and over... well, until the tapes broke."

"Good Lord... Continuity had to have been a nightmare!!!"

"You're tellin' me..."

And with VCRs continuity became very REAL in the 1970's. 

In The Beginning, Billy talks about his mum teaching him scriptures from the Bible and Joe says, "Yeah, I can remember my mother teaching me some of the same things." 😀

There's a good contradiction-oops!

Of course, Clay asks Joe if he remembers his mummy and Joe says, "No, not too much, just what my Pa told me about her."

In The Stranger, Ben tells Joe that he told him a great deal about his mother and that he never really knew her. Then briefly describes her, and says that Marie treated Adam and Hoss as if they were her own. Then Ben says that Marie came from a section that the sailors called the flats. Then he mentions that she was being blackmailed to keep her past a secret. Joe demands to know what secret and was never told.

11 minutes ago, Broken Flower said:

In The Stranger, Ben tells Joe that he told him a great deal about his mother and that he never really knew her. Then briefly describes her, and says that Marie treated Adam and Hoss as if they were her own. Then Ben says that Marie came from a section that the sailors called the flats. Then he mentions that she was being blackmailed to keep her past a secret. Joe demands to know what secret and was never told.

And Adam acted as if he knew what that secret was. What his expressions.

 

Great information about Marie yet different Marie, My Love