As we enter a new year, Brand would like to introduce a new discussion forum.  Each Friday, a new episode will be presented.  As with all new beginnings, let's start where it all began:

 

 

 

 

Lotta Crabtree is hired by mining tycoon Alpheus Troy and his cronies to lure a Cartwright into town to be held for ransom in exchange for Ponderosa timber rights.

 

Director:  Edward Ludwig

Writer:  David Dortort

First Aired:  September 12, 1959

 

Do you have a favorite scene from the episode?  Maybe it's a least favorite scene? Why?

What might you have like to see done differently? 

Would you have hired a different actor to guest star as a character?  If so, who?

 

Feel free to share screen shots of your favorite scene(s) from A Rose from Lotta.

 

PS:  When commenting, please be respectful of the actors, directors, writers, and other Forum members.

 

I have a soft spot for the rough and tumble Cartwrights of the beginning few eps.  I know the acting and storylines were still trying to get their feet under them (to put it mildly) ... but I still like this version of our boys.  You know -- Hoss tossing his brothers across the room during a fight, and all of them riding off to try to chase people off of their land, etc. I get why they made them smoother and more social pretty quickly ... but I kind of feel like people that have been living and working and growing up in this relatively remote area probably would have some rough edges. 🙂

I have two areas that interested me. The first is that this depicted the age difference and brotherly conflicts between Adam and Joe. This was one thing that was carried into the other episodes. And of course Hoss was in the middle trying to play peacekeeper between the two which also carried over into other episodes. 

 

The second thing I found fascinating was how taken Adam was with Lotta. There seem to be some chemistry and even Ben seemed to pick up on it.

 

I agree with PSW in that I liked a little bit of the edgier Cartwright's as well. And it seemed Adam stayed pretty much the same throughout his years, where the others changed more. I am very glad that Ben was toned down a little bit but I think he may have lost too much of his edge as the patriarch. I very much enjoy seeing that edgy dark side of Adam. 

 

 

I also have a huge soft spot for the Cartwrights in this first ep.  Despite the rough spots there is so much to love.  However, I was not sorry to lose the simpering Hoss or the over-zealous 'Fire and Brimstone'  Ben.  But I do love the rough housing boys.  The scenes where Ben confronts the miners shows his strength of family, together with a more ruthless and determined side.  We are already seeing the mischievous, life loving Joe who takes on the miner's henchmen with such glee.  Hoss as the peace bringer (by force if necessary), and the more serious Adam, who stand-up to the gunslinger.  

Personally, I feel the evolution of the Cartwrights to more social creatures would have been a natural response to Virginia City and the influx of more settlers.  It just feels right to me that Ben would take a stand and become a community leader.

My favourite scene?  Has to be the fight in the main room and Hoss lifting and tossing Joe.  An exuberant start.

My least favourite?  Ben apologizing to Hop Sing (Poor Lorne.  He described this as the worst pilot every made.  I'm sure he had that scene in mind lol.)

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Bakerj said:

y least favourite?  Ben apologizing to Hop Sing (Poor Lorne.  He described this as the worst pilot every made.  I'm sure he had that scene in mind lol.)

 

Amen, sister.  (Ben was just ... too much. Yes. On many fronts.)

 

And yes ... I do appreciate the better Hoss character that eventually emerged ... no question there.  😍

7 minutes ago, Bakerj said:

 

My least favourite?  Ben apologizing to Hop Sing 

 

 

 

I guess I need to go back and rewatch, I don't remember this scene - or else it was cut during subsequent broadcasts.

I doubt Lorne had much choice.  He was a newbie on a new show and had to say his lines as written. 

We're all thankful, I think, that he didn't have to continue in that direction.

I never liked the way they showed Hoss. He was presented as a giant idiot. In later eps Dan Blocker changed his character to the better.

10 minutes ago, JoeC said:

He was presented as a giant idiot.

 

It was only in the one scene that Hoss was shown in that way, I think.  I know they didn't see many woman but … wow!

What did you like about Rose for Lotta, Helga? 

they're rude and ill-mannered. I think the actors play very badly, they're too caricatural.
There is only Mike Landon who is good at it, and whose character is already well drawn (he looks like what he will be afterwards: mischievous, loving women, clever).
I don't like the image that Hoss has: an idiot, strong, but stupid (which fortunately will change later).

But Adam (I don't like his personality in this episode) is very handsome, so I can forgive him  

This episode looks like a test, and happy the characters softened after this one.

1 hour ago, indiana said:

they're rude and ill-mannered. I think the actors play very badly, they're too caricatural.
There is only Mike Landon who is good at it, and whose character is already well drawn (he looks like what he will be afterwards: mischievous, loving women, clever).
I don't like the image that Hoss has: an idiot, strong, but stupid (which fortunately will change later).

But Adam (I don't like his personality in this episode) is very handsome, so I can forgive him  

This episode looks like a test, and happy the characters softened after this one.

 

They were a  little 'over the top' in their acting, and acting the characters instead of being the characters is how I interpret the episode. 

 

And you're right on several accounts, it did seem more natural for ML than the others.  And yes, Adam is very handsome, so he is forgiven. 

 

I like your interpretation, it was their 'screen test'.  Thank goodness, they matured into their roles and actually became the characters we all love.

I think this episode is pretty hilarious.  I laughed so much the first time I watched it.  It's almost like a parody of the Cartwrights we know and love.  (The Cartwrongs?)

 

But I do think they would have had some rough edges, especially in the early days.  I like edgy...

 

 

4 minutes ago, JC* said:

The Cartwrongs

 

Hee! Love it ...

 

Most shows (at least the ones I’ve seen) are pretty bad for the first little bit, until they get themselves figured out. The first season of Star Trek TNG was almost unwatchable ... 😏

There are some memorable lines in this episode, too.  "Feast thine eyes on a sight that approaches heaven itself!"

 

11 minutes ago, JC* said:

 It's almost like a parody of the Cartwrights we know and love.  (The Cartwrongs?)

 

 

 

Better than the Wheelwrights from the Maverick episode. 

3 hours ago, Bakerj said:

 

My least favourite?  Ben apologizing to Hop Sing (Poor Lorne.  He described this as the worst pilot every made.  I'm sure he had that scene in mind lol.)

 

 

Oh yes, yes, yes - agree one hundred percent. I have to fast-forward through this scene as it's so horrible. I think it's the way Ben (and I'll say Ben, not Lorne) apologised in a 'Chinese' accent. I think I'm bring all my modern sensibilities to it but it's incredibly cringeworthy. 

 

But that's just one scene in an episode that I really like. I can live with simpering Hoss especially as when we see him backing up his family with his giant coat and gun in the saloon, he sums up that protective brotherly close-knit unit to perfection.

 

Ben is loud - and I mean LOUD but he's so patriarchal that I love him! 

 

Mike is so young! And very cute and yep, his character was spot on from word go.

 

And Pernell, wow! The man was gorgeous, I say no more. They were really going for the right-hand-man, family gunslinger, lover-and-leaver character which I wish they'd kept going a bit longer. He got a tiny bit... tame towards the end. He has a freedom of movement and spontaneity which is so very attractive!

 

Favourite scene(s) - seeing Tahoe for the first time, and the brother's fight (and reconciliation).

 

Favourite pix - number 1 showing a bit of brotherly love and number 2 a lesson in how to look at a woman!

 

 

Not sure if the costumers were trying to make Yvonne DeCarlo appear younger than she was with those ribbons in hair.

 

In real life she was six years older than Pernell, and seven  years younger than Lorne.  

 

OMG - could we call her a Cougar?  She was 14 years older than Michael.

 

 

Little Joe never gave age a second thought.  He liked what he saw and ... the rest is history.

24 minutes ago, BluewindFarm said:

Not sure if the costumers were trying to make Yvonne DeCarlo appear younger than she was with those ribbons in hair.

 

In real life she was six years older than Pernell, and only two years younger than Lorne.  

 

OMG - could we call her a Cougar?  She was 14 years older than Michael.

 

No offense to the lovely lady, but IMO the casting of Lotta was another flaw of this episode.  

10 minutes ago, JC* said:

but IMO the casting of Lotta was another flaw of this episode. 

 

I think they were going for star power.  I read somewhere that Yvonne De Carlo was very stand offish and wouldn't talk to the cast outside of filming her bits.  But, I agree, I always thought she was a little old for the part.  

The episode is so terrible it's "good."

 

Ben the so over-the-top "fire and brimstone" spouting patriarch, Adam as right-hand man and enforcer, Hoss as giant doofus (one lip lick away from being a sex offender!) and around mostly for his muscles, and Joe as the adorable scamp.  I like Adam's dangerous edge in this episode, especially in the gunfight.  It's no surprise that Joe snuck off to town with Lotta, is it?  

 

I do enjoy the backstory David Dortort worked in about Ben's three wives as Joe and Lotta travel to Virginia City--Elizabeth the daughter of a New England sea captain (she doesn't get much more description than that!), Inger as a giant Swede who "threw [Ben] 2 out of 3 times in a wrestling match," and Marie as the daughter of one of Jean Lafitte's pirates.  I like Ben's description of Inger that Joe relays to Lotta---Inger being like a "clean, fresh sunrise."  I also find it amusing that Joe can't believe his father was married to a Yankee because it certainly doesn't seem to bother Joe that his father is a Yankee.  

 

I always wonder why Troy's secretary was at the meeting.  She ate lunch while her boss and his cronies discussed their plan to take down the Cartwrights.  She wasn't taking notes.   Why not send her out to lunch? 

 

The most fun I've ever had watching this episode was at the 50th Anniversary Convention.  It was a Rocky Horror style midnight showing with fans tossing one-liners and poking fun at the characters.

3 minutes ago, patina said:

The episode is so terrible it's "good."   Hoss as giant doofus (one lip lick away from being a sex offender!) 

 

My favorite scene is definitely the Tahoe scene. Pa and eldest son taking a moment to survey their land, and just enjoy it, until it's back to business. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Bakerj said:

What did you like about Rose for Lotta, Helga? 

 

June, of course young Joe. At that time I saw him I was a child and he was my first love.

Joe was so carefree, he did what was fun, never a second thought about his doing. He showed his matured side, he was a man. Then Daddy came and gave him one big smack on his backside and he was a boy again. So funny.

46 minutes ago, JC* said:

50 minutes ago, patina said:

The episode is so terrible it's "good."   Hoss as giant doofus (one lip lick away from being a sex offender!) 

 

 

Best description ever!